Show I install a high volume oil pump

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Offline Dingo80

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Show I install a high volume oil pump
« on: October 22, 2019, 05:00:51 PM »
I have to take my oil pan off as I am replacing the gasket and fitting a new timing cover. I replaced the oil pick up when I installed my new oil pan a while back. My question is now I am taking the pan off again, I have a ford racing FMS-M-660-B3 high volume oil pump and M-6605-A341 HD oil pump shaft. Should I install these while I am at it or not worry?

I have no oil pressure issues or leaks, just had this sitting in my garage for ages and wonder if it is just good for my engine in the long run?

Motor is nothing fancy. 351W rebuilt maybe 13yrs ago. Standard crank, alloy heads, h-286-2 crane cam, weiand stealth intake, 1.7 roller rockers, 10.5:1 comp

If I should fit it, are there any tricks to it? Motor won't be running for quite some time as car is in primer and still needs body work/paint.

Offline sms777

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 07:20:56 PM »
Don't do it.....will explain later but I got to run....Shaun will probably jump in and tell why.
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Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:36 PM »
Don't do it ,no to the hi volume pump . Shaun will explain   :grin:  , hold on , Barnett will explain .  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 08:33:48 PM by GLENN 70 »

Offline trav68

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 10:00:50 PM »
I just use a good quality stock flow/pressure pump with an ARP driveshaft.

High flow will require increased torque to drive it ( ie harder on gear and driveshaft) assuming pressure is equal in both pumps
At low rpms high flow might cool bearings a bit more ( but this is not a problem anyway)
At higher rpms relief will bypass so all things being equal flow to bearings would be same

Realistically it won't make difference either way in your build - HV would be more value if had really loose bearing clearances.

There is definitely merit in the HD driveshaft

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 10:11:52 PM »
Well not sure what to do now. Got sump off and found some cracks in oil pump. Big one in the seam and some hairlines across the pump. So from the feedback should I just try and get a stock replacement and fit the HD oil pump shaft?

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 10:47:09 PM »
That would be my advice ,but I'm not an engine builder .  No to the hi volume pump . Wait for either Chris / SMS 777 or Shaun and Barnett to give you advice . 

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 10:44:21 AM »
All good. After finding the cracks I will just get a new stock pump and gaskets. Would still be interested to know reasons for not going high volume though.

Offline Aussiecv8

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 11:16:19 AM »
Others will give you the tech explanation, but put simply, it will empty the sump quicker than the oil can return to it.  Would be ok with a high volume pan and pick up, but you might want to make sure the oil galleries, etc. are clean/ clear.

The standard pump with the heavy duty/ extended drive shaft is a good idea though.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 11:18:37 AM by Aussiecv8 »

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 12:04:19 PM »
I do have a ford racing 9 quart sump but don't know the condition of the oil galleries. Will just stick to a standard pump and install the hd shaft.

Is there a particular one to get. Looking on ebay just for range and there are quite a few. Mellings have a couple but one $70 odd and others are $180-200 but both say standard pump. I don't mind paying for a good one, no chinese knock off rubbish. Figure this is an area not to skimp on.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:17:13 PM by Dingo80 »

Offline Aussiecv8

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 12:21:12 PM »
I just installed a Mellings with the HD drive shaft.   Cost around $100 but any well known brand would be OK.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 02:03:26 PM »
I use the Mellings standard Volume "high performance pumps", on modified engines that get reved, they have a cast cover rather than a plate. the main shaft is extended into this which reduces shaft deflection, the shaft defection is what breaks the pump.  They also have screw  adjust pressure valve. I use these with heavy duty shaft. They dont need a HV pump it just wears you cam and wastes HP.

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 02:17:02 PM »
Thanks guys. Sorry to push the friendship, you wouldn't have a part number would you Shaun?

Found it - ME10832 performance series

Thanks guys for your input.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 04:46:18 PM by Dingo80 »

Offline Dingo80

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 04:20:18 PM »
Got my new pump today. Another question - it came with an optional relief valve spring that will increase bypass pressure without affecting idle pressure according to piece of paper. Should this be installed?

I am assuming this will increase the oil pressure, but that would make it more like a high volume pump wouldn't it as generally increased pressure = increased flow?

Offline shaunp

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 09:36:12 AM »
Just put the pump straight in

Offline barnett468

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2019, 11:22:54 AM »
Got my new pump today. Another question - it came with an optional relief valve spring that will increase bypass pressure without affecting idle pressure according to piece of paper. Should this be installed?

I am assuming this will increase the oil pressure, but that would make it more like a high volume pump wouldn't it as generally increased pressure = increased flow?

It's a bit complicated, but in general, for starters:

HIGHER PRESSURE = LESS FLOW

LOWER PRESSURE = HIGHER FLOW

A standard pump has more than enough pressure for most performance street apps. High revving engines can benefit from higher pressure pumps.

A higher pressure spring will not make it flow more oil.

Another good choice for pumps are ones that have been "blueprinted". When done properly, this process makes then more efficient (they pump more oil).

Here's some general info on oil pumps.

https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4825/~/do-i-need-a-high-volume-or-high-pressure-oil-pump%3F
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 11:37:08 AM by barnett468 »

Offline barnett468

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Re: Show I install a high volume oil pump
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2019, 11:43:04 AM »
Others will give you the tech explanation, but put simply, it will empty the sump quicker than the oil can return to it.

Actually this is an incorrect belief that has gotten around somehow, however, in the ford world there can be issues with the FE engines. In some cases depending on the build and oil pump etc, it is possible for the valve covers to overfill with oil, and to counter this problem, an old school holley main jet around size 70, is installed in the oil port in the head that leads to the rocker arms to reduce the volume of oil that can get to them.



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« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 11:56:51 AM by barnett468 »

 

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