Author Topic: VASS Legislative Interpretations  (Read 1020 times)

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Offline gstsaver

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VASS Legislative Interpretations
« on: April 12, 2018, 06:51:33 PM »
Hi, Does anyone have a direct contact to the Department of Infrastructure that deals with legislative interpretations for the ADR's ?

There is one section of the second edition of ADRs 5b that deals with seatbelts and there is a clause that I feel relates to Convertibles but the VASS guy I am using is uncertain.
He suggested I get clarification from Department of Infrastructure.  I emailed the general email as when I rang they couldn't help and didn't have any specific email address


Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 08:47:02 PM »
Not trying to oversimplify things but your VASS guy is the certification authority as far as VicRoads is concerned so what he says goes.  If he is unsure how to interpret something surely it's up to him to seek clarification from the relevant people, not you as his client.

After all, that's what you're paying him for...
Cheers,
Brian

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 07:16:25 PM »
Thanks BAC.

Actually it turns out they have guidelines they use from when they are trained and that is what they go by.  It seems that they don't match the legislation in same cases.
Vic Roads agreed with me, after speaking with Head office for a long time on one item - that the speedo doesn't have to be in KM when manufactured prior to July 1988 but he says his guidelines tell him otherwise.
Vic Roads tells me that he is not correct but he has the right to tell me whatever I have to do and if I don't like it I should find another VASS guy. However, it sounds like they all use the same guidelines they are trained on.  So if the VASS guy told me that I had to paint my car yellow and have pink wheels they could...there is apparently nobody to appeal to.

The only other issue I have is the 5b for convertibles.  He says he won't accept that ADR and believes there are other factors.  So around in circles  I go.
He did offer that he will accept a written statement from Vic Roads or Dept Infrastructure  about these issues but short of that he won't budge.

Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 09:49:33 PM »
You have your solution: make your VASS guy happy or find another one.  Only downside is they all charge like wounded bulls and it gets expensive real quick going from one to the next.

Don't want to go into specifics but I was in a comparable situation with one person interpreting the rules in a far more strict (read: bad news for me) fashion than another.  At the end of the day, VicRoads only want a cert with the guy's signature on it, nothing more.
Cheers,
Brian

Offline USA066

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 11:46:03 PM »
These import options apply to vehicles manufactured pre-1989.
https://infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/import_options/pre1989scheme.aspx
The VASS guys training probably applies to post 89 vehicles which would require compliance with current ADR's. Eg. Odometer in Kmph
This may help
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 10:40:32 AM »
Thanks guys.  I will continue to contact Vic Roads and Dept of Infrastructure for clarification.
I don't blame the VASS guy he actually is a good guy but feesl he has to rely on his guidelines.  He doesn't care whatever legislation I show him and has said that.  I also feel that since he has done this so long and people don't challenge him he gets his nose out of joint when some backyard mechanic tries to tell him what the legislation is.
The problem is likely whoever wrote these internal guidelines has changed them over the years and it doesn't cover every situation and differs from year to year.

I assume he wouldn't accept the app for Kilometers anyway - it is his way or not at all.

We shouldn't have to just put up with whatever they say.  The speedo issue is a small one and not expensive for me but it is the principle of it. 
The other issue is the seat belts in a convertible (1987), there is very specific legislation for this but once again he isn't in the business of checking legislation so no matter how I put it to him he isn't interested.  Once again not his fault - he is an engineer and/or likely a mechanic with a wealth of knowledge about cars but not about policy.  It really is a poor system.

Offline cap70

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2018, 10:59:04 AM »
I would go with someone else, using guidelines from years ago is BS he is supposed to be up with current legislation.
Its his job to be up to date, and apply the correct rules for the cars year not force newer adr's on an older car.
Or make you do the research and prove it to him, which from what I'm reading he doesn't want to believe anyway.

Offline Dwayne

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2018, 11:01:57 AM »
I'd go to someone else too.

Could be worse, you could only have the govt inspection where it's entirely reliant on what mood they happen to be in at the time.

Offline skip70

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 02:15:09 PM »
+ 1 with Dwayne & cap70. Your guy needs to keep up to date.
Guidelines are just that they are not legislation.

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 09:35:00 AM »
Still waiting on VIC Roads to get back to me.  Initial call with them was them saying VASS signatories can basically do what they like and if they want to add something to the list of what is needed they can do so at their discretion.  I am not taking this answer as fact and asked to be escalated to some one more senior.  The issue is that IF that were the case then why draft such detailed legislation and even more critical it would allow for 'VASS shopping' just finding the VASS signatory that will be the most lenient and this would lead to corruption in that industry.

Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 10:34:33 AM »
The whole thing is a mess: basically VicRoads don't want to take any ownership for the VASS program even though they are the responsible authority.  Some VASS guys are pretty much cowboys who will give you a different interpretation from one day to the next.  Some are a bit flexible while others are incredibly strict.

Only thing I can see to do is find an engineer who is sympathetic to the practicalities of old cars and how they will be used (e.g. club permit) and will make a fair and reasonable assessment of requirements on that basis.  Don't hang your hat on VicRoads as they won't want to get involved and at the end of the day are only interested in seeing the piece of paper with the VASS signatory's name on it...
Cheers,
Brian

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 04:19:29 PM »
This really is a mess of a system.  Spoke with Vic Roads higher ups at length today and they have a completely different philosophy than what I feel it should be.  They say the VASS signatories are there to make sure it is safe and the ADR's and all the legislation is just a minimum standard and that all VASS signatories will apply them differently.  This can't be the way the system was designed as there will be major inequities.

Anyway, VIC ROADS recommended that I find out if anyone here had experience with any VASS signatories that have specific experience with FOX BODY MUSTANGS ?  I should try and find this out and deal with these specific VASS signatories.




Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 06:37:14 PM »
IMHO, the way to go about it is either (a) join a club that has a VASS signatory among its office bearers or (b) find someone who is as clueless as possible and won't push too hard on anything.
Cheers,
Brian

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 11:16:40 PM »
Thanks BAC - I actually just want someone that knows what they are talking about - not just the engineering side but the legislation side. I have talked with a couple of them and they seem like decent nice guys with a lot of knowledge of cars but not of the legislation. If in doubt they just say it 'needs' to be fixed etc.
One good example is that pre 1988 cars don't need a speedo in kilometers and many VASS guys say they do but some know the rules and say they don't.  Surely there should be a set guideline (or they should know the exisiting ones) so each doesn't interpret differently.
I don't mind if they follow the rules to the letter of the law it is the fact that Vic Roads says these are just minimum standards and that the VASS guys can go above that.
That is like having a speed limit of 100 but some cops give tickets at 95 because in their opinion the speed limits aren't as safe as they could be.

The VASS guys also don't want any conversation as to 'why'.  If I need something fixed I need to know 'why'.... they just say 'because I say so'.  Not on.

Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 12:12:17 AM »
All good points, but at the end of the day, the VASS process is just part of the journey to get to what you want:  your car on the road.  Rather than shake your fist at the injustice of it all, think about driving down the road in your new toy and hopefully it won't matter so much how you get there.

I had a situation where I went to the same VASS person twice a couple of years apart with very similar cars and the goalposts had shifted quite substantially from the first visit to the second.  It was upsetting and unjust, but rather than make a big stink about it I just found a different VASS person and moved on, albeit having to pay to get the same car looked at twice.  But the end goal was to get the car on the road, so you do what you have to.

What really pisses me off about the system is I can have two identically specced cars, one built on 31st December 1968 and the other 1st January 1969 and the first car doesn't need a VASS certificate but the second one does! Explain how that is 'fair'...  :ouch:  I also don't see why you have to go to an engineer for approval if you're only going to put a car on club plates - it's obviously a hobby car and not going to be used as a daily driver so why impose that extra burden?

At the end of the day though, if you decide to continue with the crusade - best of luck!  :thumb:
Cheers,
Brian

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2018, 11:41:46 AM »
Is there anyone that people here recommend that work on Mustangs ?

I have talked to a few VASS signatories and get completely different answers on a range of things.  I am considering just registering as a 2 seater or getting anchorage put in for rear seat lap-sash.  I am not going to continue that fight.
However it seems like those that know about this have different views on lights, speedos etc and then others seems to know about the lights and belts but have other strange views like that they have to do exhaust noise and braking tests ???

I would just like to find a VASS signatory that is up on the rules and is fair and reasonable.  Any suggestions ?

Offline BAC

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 11:54:48 AM »
I would just like to find a VASS signatory that is up on the rules and is fair and reasonable.  Any suggestions ?

Good luck - I've been looking for 3 years and yet to find one within 20kms of where I live (southern suburbs).  If you're over the northern side of town you might have a better chance.

Maybe join MOCA if you haven't already and they may be able to help.
Cheers,
Brian

Offline gstsaver

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Re: VASS Legislative Interpretations
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 05:33:46 PM »
Back to the drawing board for the rear seatbelts and Headlamps.

The headlamps I was told may fit don't and for the rear seat belts I can't seem to find anyone that knows about these cars to install them.

 

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