Author Topic: Electronic Ignition System  (Read 1415 times)

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Offline USA066

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Electronic Ignition System
« on: January 12, 2018, 04:54:20 PM »
Driving home from a cruise on Monday, the engine spluttered and died. After getting a tow home by the RAC, found the problem to be the ignition coil. I am running a Pertronix Ignition II system installed 7 years ago in my 66 with a 331 SB engine. I have now replaced the coil with a Bosch GT40R, which is heaps better than the Flame Thrower II. Now looking the replace the ignition system, but feel an MSD 6AL to be too high performance and costly for my application. As an alternative, I am looking at the MSD Scorpion Street Fire CDI system which is good for 350HP engines, not the same output as a 6AL but half the price. Has anybody installed or had any experience with these?

MSD Street Fire Ford SBF Pro Billet Distributor Ignition Box Coil 289,302 SBF  https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F172861351204
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline shaunp

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 06:50:10 PM »
You could use an MSD ready to run dissy, just need a coil then

Offline barnett468

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 06:55:07 PM »
why do you want to change the ignition, it won't go any faster?

Offline USA066

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 07:35:50 PM »
Barnett, I don't really want to change the ignition, but I am just thinking of reliability. I have just installed a new coil and seems to running fine now. Just saw a guy with a 66 with a 302 and he is running a MSD ready to run, and happy with it. I'm in no hurry to change, just considering options.
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 04:30:44 AM »
The Bosch GT40R coil is designed to be used with a resistor. If you have bypassed the resistance wire, you need a GT40 coil.
It might explain why your coil died.
I have been wr...wrong before tho.

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 06:35:26 AM »
Just to clarify, the Flame Thrower II and GT40R, are not interchangeable.
You need to determine if you have 12v at the coil, or not.

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 07:19:57 AM »
Yes, 12 volts when the engine is running, not just with the ignition on.

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 07:54:34 AM »
Doh!! I always forget sumthin. Thanks Geoff.

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 08:40:45 AM »
Only reason I don't forget that is that I spent weeks a few years ago trying to figure out why my engine wouldn't run when I could clearly see 12 volts at the coil.....

Offline barnett468

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 04:43:57 PM »
Barnett, I don't really want to change the ignition, but I am just thinking of reliability. I have just installed a new coil and seems to running fine now. Just saw a guy with a 66 with a 302 and he is running a MSD ready to run, and happy with it. I'm in no hurry to change, just considering options.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

The pertronix units are typically reliable and may last longer than you will.

If your distributor shaft is not excessively worn and the vacuum advance and mechanical advance work properly, you are better off simply trying to set your timing curve to try and get a little better performance out of it.

Spend the money you saved on some nice tasty FOSTERS LAGER....Australians Favorite Beer And Driveway Cleaner!  :lmao:

Offline USA066

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 07:21:04 PM »
Thanks all for your comments. So, after installing the new coil, the engine is now running beautifully. It starts better on cold start, would have to feather the accelerator before, idles better and runs a lot smoother. Maybe the coil has been on its way out for a while, obviously, the new coil is giving a far better spark. Don't plan to change ignition at this stage, will see how it goes, but really happy with it at the moment. Cheers
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline Clubman7

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 07:56:02 PM »
Just to clarify, the Flame Thrower II and GT40R, are not interchangeable.
You need to determine if you have 12v at the coil, or not.
Did you check your voltage?
Flamethrower 2 runs at 12 volts as you are supposed to bypass your pink resistor wire from the ignition switch, and a GT40R is made for running at 9 volts.
Or have you removed the Flamethrower unit from your dissy?

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 01:43:22 PM »
You need to check your voltage as already mentioned. If the resistor wire is still in place, thats why the flamethrower never worked properly.
If the resistor wire is not in place,(which is how the pertronix II should have been installed), your GT40R wont survive.

Offline USA066

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 03:41:50 PM »
Thanks guys, I am now getting a better understanding. To be honest, I suspect the ballast resister "pink wire" has not been bypassed when the Pertronix system was installed and I think what has happened is that a relay has been installed, which I understand is acceptable. In any case, the engine has never really run 100% in the 7 years, and this may explain why the coil has now failed. When the new coil, a SU12R (I couldn't buy a GT40R, only the cheaper version) which requires a ballast resister, was installed, the engine now runs better than ever. The problem I see is if the new coil is not compatible with the Pertonix dizzy, which I understand has an internal resister, could the coil or dizzy fail in time?
Not sure whether I have 12v at the coil, will check this, but pls let me know if I am not on the right track. Does an MSD system require the ballast resister?
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline GEOFF289

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 04:49:08 PM »
An MSD ready to run dizzy needs 12 volts so the resistor needs to be taken out of the equation. I have an MSD dizzy and coil in mine and have had no issues.

A common way of approaching it is to use a the resistor wire to trigger a relay which then provides 12 volts directly from the battery or solenoid to the coil.

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2018, 05:12:58 PM »
If the resistance wire is indeed switching a relay that supplies 12v to the coil, this is what the ignitor II needs.
But you now have a coil that needs 9v... thats what the R stands for.
Check that you are getting 12v to the coil with the engine running (Thanks Geoff).
If so, replace the coil for one without the R suffix.
Simple :-)
https://au.bosch-automotive-shop.com/products/details/-/productdetails/F000ZS0006/ignition-coil-su12
Or supercheap
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Bosch-Ignition-Coil-SU12/0580

Offline USA066

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM »
Yes, it does indeed appear i have a relay installed which means if I want to retain the Igniter II, I need a coil without the R. Will look at that this week. Thanks for all your advice.
2007 GT Convertible
2008 Bullitt
1966 Coupe

Offline 289 vert

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Re: Electronic Ignition System
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 07:32:29 PM »
You're welcome ... those links are to a coil that will suit.

 

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