Author Topic: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise  (Read 4916 times)

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Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2017, 11:21:37 PM »
Hey Barnes I don't read everything ,neither do you buddy .  :elefant:

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2017, 03:22:59 PM »
Of course you checked the fitment of the converter nose in the end of the crank and the trans end play to insure the converter wouldn't force the crank into the thrust bearing if the converter baloons out at higher revs.

Can you explain this a bit more?

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2017, 03:33:31 PM »
Have you forgotten again Barney?

ummm...forgotten what?  :lmao:


Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2017, 04:27:48 PM »
Is it safe to undo the 4 flexplate to TC bolts and start the engine?

Offline birdman

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2017, 04:58:03 PM »
Is it safe to undo the 4 flexplate to TC bolts and start the engine?

Now you are asking for trouble...  :thud:
Just pull the box out...

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2017, 06:36:41 PM »
Is it safe to undo the 4 flexplate to TC bolts and start the engine?

Well, that can be done if the converter moves back away from the flexplate by at least 5 mm, however, you would want the front of the car up at least a little so the converter doesn't slide forward into the flex plate which shouldn't be a problem, however, the nose of the flexplate will then likely be rubbing on the inside of the crank so you wouldn't want to run it for more than maybe 5 seconds but that should be long enough to hear the noise anyway. If you do this and I am not suggesting you do, make sure the converter turns freely by hand before you start the engine.


Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 10:01:10 AM »
- TC to flexplate bolts undone, TC moved back a little and started. Still makes sound - rules out TC and gearbox. (Could still be flexplate to crank though)
- Removed spark plug leads one by one and sound did not change.
- Removed starter motor and all good.

Next step, sump.

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2017, 10:39:52 AM »
Does the engine have a windage tray ? Baffled sump ? . It's running fine ,plugs like good ,good oil pressure ,idle is good . Cracked flex plate ? Even tho Windsors don't crack them very often ,unlike Chevys . Front pulleys are are clear ? I'm running out of ideas  :cry:

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2017, 11:34:21 AM »
TC to flexplate bolts undone, TC moved back a little and started. Still makes sound - rules out TC and gearbox.

(Could still be flexplate to crank though)

1. you looked to make certain the torque converter was not spinning with the crank?

2. that is nearly impossible, but just look at the front of it to see if there are any heavy gouges.

pretty much sounds like what i first thought but the plug wire test will hopefully narrow it down to the specific cylinder that is affected if it is a rod or a piston.


Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2017, 11:35:21 AM »
I'm running out of ideas  :cry:

That's no surprise.   :leaving:

Offline BAC

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2017, 11:36:42 AM »
- Removed starter motor and all good.

So just clarifying: noise was still there with starter motor removed?
Cheers,
Brian

Offline Bucks

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2017, 12:22:39 PM »
Watched a video the other day about american race sumps being made in china and the baffles come out and cause all sorts of nasty noises.

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2017, 01:07:03 PM »
Watched a video the other day about american race sumps being made in china and the baffles come out and cause all sorts of nasty noises.

Sadly, it seems that most things that used to be made in the US are now made "overseas". This does not mean that the can't make xlnt products overseas however, it just seems that many of the ones being made are not made well and we will rarely know exactly why that is. Keep in mind that China also makes maybe 90% of the cranks, rods, and pistons that EVERYONE is using in their stroker engine builds, and those work just fine if the engine is PROPERLY built.


Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2017, 01:09:56 PM »
So just clarifying: noise was still there with starter motor removed?

He would have had to remove the starter while the engine was running to determine this which seems highly unlikely that he did.

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2017, 03:10:56 PM »
So just clarifying: noise was still there with starter motor removed?

Yes checked starter and it is not starter. I did this by undoing the lower bolt and pulling it away from the bellhousing with motor running. Made no difference to anything. Also took starter completely out and tested/inspected. A OK.


Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2017, 03:12:39 PM »
Took drive belt completely off and started. Same noise.
1. you looked to make certain the torque converter was not spinning with the crank?

2. that is nearly impossible, but just look at the front of it to see if there are any heavy gouges.

pretty much sounds like what i first thought but the plug wire test will hopefully narrow it down to the specific cylinder that is affected if it is a rod or a piston.



1) Yes 100% I had a helper and he said TC did not move at all. Plug wire test, no sound change at all.


Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2017, 03:20:28 PM »
OK got sump off (took 3 hours as previous owner decided to superglue it/silicone it on with about 3 tonnes of the hardest substance known to man...)

Anyway no metal in pan, no dents or scratches on pan. Looking up from below engine internals look great, you can see high quality parts in there - no burrs/dents etc. everything is nice and tight and not making any sounds when cranking by hand.

Now when looking up you can see the back of the bolt holes that connect the flexplate to the engine. There are 6 holes. I managed to thread a small piece of wire in there and measure the depth of the hole to the end of the flexplate bolts. 5 measure about 10mm, one hole measures about 25mm depth and looks like it may even go all the way through. Theory now is that bolt has come undone/snapped off and is making the noise by flying around stuck between the flexplate and the TC. Lets put it at 80% sure.

So I have to get to it so I need to drop the transmission or is it easier to lift up and swing the engine forward to get to it?

 

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2017, 03:23:12 PM »
Took drive belt completely off and started. Same noise.
1) Yes 100% I had a helper and he said TC did not move at all. Plug wire test, no sound change at all.

you tested all 8 wires?

Online barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2017, 03:28:31 PM »
Theory now is that bolt has come undone/snapped off and is making the noise by flying around stuck between the flexplate and the TC. Lets put it at 80% sure.

It most likely would have fallen out when you moved the converter back or at least to the bottom where you could possibly see it, plus you shuld have heard it when you rotated the converter by hand to insure it was free.

You do not need to remove the trans. Just unbolt the drive shaft and the trans and slide it rearward on a floor jack around 50 mm.

Did you feel all the rods to see if any felt loose?

Offline lukep6470

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2017, 11:47:04 AM »
Hi,

It just occurred to me that you are getting under the car with the engine running.  I hope you are not just trusting Supercheap Axle stands with no backup to keep you alive.  There has been a spate of people crushed under there classic cars in the last few years.

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2017, 01:10:09 PM »
It most likely would have fallen out when you moved the converter back or at least to the bottom where you could possibly see it, plus you shuld have heard it when you rotated the converter by hand to insure it was free.

You do not need to remove the trans. Just unbolt the drive shaft and the trans and slide it rearward on a floor jack around 50 mm.

Did you feel all the rods to see if any felt loose?

Ok thanks and yes checked rods - no movement up and down, a tiny bit side to side but I believe that is normal.

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2017, 01:10:54 PM »
Hi,

It just occurred to me that you are getting under the car with the engine running.  I hope you are not just trusting Supercheap Axle stands with no backup to keep you alive.  There has been a spate of people crushed under there classic cars in the last few years.

Yeah just axle stands (albeit heavy duty ones) and yes you are 100% correct, good reminder.

Offline unilec5544

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2017, 08:25:11 PM »
I don't know how you would check it unless you take it apart, but could be timing chain. You have taken the tappet covers off and check the valve train, so have you rotated the engine and checked to see if all the valves are opening to the same height.

Online shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2017, 09:15:50 PM »
 You've checked the balancer and pulleys right?

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2017, 08:08:30 AM »
Guys I'm dropping the tranny. Halfway there and will update the thread with what I find.

 

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