Author Topic: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise  (Read 4947 times)

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Offline mod66

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Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« on: December 06, 2017, 01:09:26 PM »
Hi all

Car is a 66 Mustang coupe fully restored. It has a Winsor 347 stroker (roughly 4 years old) with fresh oil.

Its been off the road for a month or so as I just finished putting in a new Performance Automatic reverse manual C4 and a high stall (3500rpm) TCE torque converter. New trans cooler and obviously trans oil, coolant etc.

Went for a test drive yesterday. First 10 minutes of the drive were great, engine and gearbox very sweet and car very quick.

Once warmed up I went for a very hard run to really test it out and possible I may have over-revved. I had a quick glance at my Autometer tach (to which I stupidly had not yet set a rev limit on) and think I saw about 6000-6500rpm (which should be safe?).

Next set of lights horrible sounds coming from under car - it actually sounding like fluid bubbling and boiling to me so I limped the 2 minutes home at very low revs. When I popped the hood the drive belt (it has a gilmer drive) was completely off as the alternator bracket had come loose so I thought that was the sound. Tightened it up and this video is how it sounds.



I can't tell where the strange sound is coming from - whether it is engine or torque converter as it seems to be coming from everywhere at once. I tried listening with a screwdriver and the right hand side head is very loud compared to the left. But then you get under the car and it sounds even louder like its coming from the bottom rear of the engine or the bellhousing.

I took off the inspection plate in the bellhousing and no loose bits of metal in there, bolts to the torque converter and flexplate all still tight. I've drained the oil and can't see any metal shards or anything. What would be my next step?

Offline barnett468

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 01:24:34 PM »
.
Sounds like a rod knock or a rocker hitting a valve cover.

You can do the following if you want.

Remove one plug wire at a time while it is idling and see if the sound reduces noticeably, then replace the wire and try the one next to it. Continue this until you ave tried them all. If there is not a noticeable change in the sound it is likely not a rod or piston etc.

Remove the bolts from one valve cover at a time. Leave one bolt threaded in just a little. Start the engine then remove the bolt and lift the valve cover up around 1 mm and see if the sound changes.

With the engine off remove the valve cover and feel the rockers to see if any are loose.



Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 01:32:03 PM »
Hmm too hard to tell really . If it's not a rocker check the converter bolts . And I hate those belt set ups on high revving engines

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 08:19:11 PM »
Thanks so far Ill take a look.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 08:28:00 PM »
Gillmer drives are crap, Is the oil pressure ok?

Offline Clubman7

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 08:31:01 PM »
Bent pushrod?
Weird rattling sound.
Sort of like the torque converter is loose or the flex plate.

Offline PET-289

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 08:32:09 PM »
Sounds like big ends to me........there is an easy way(expensive) and a hard way(not as expensive) to tell........the easy way is to take it for another hot lap and the rod in question should find its way out.... either through the block or the sump or  you could just remove the sump and see what has happened.
Let us know how you go.....

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 09:46:23 PM »
It's so loud it's hard to tell what it is . Check oil pressure . Check converter bolts and hope it's no flex plate bolts . Check balancer bolt . Rockers and push rods . Is it running fine ,no mis ? 

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 09:51:40 AM »
Hey yes it is running fine, no miss and has power just making that very loud noise.

Also oil pressure is at nothing on the gauge. However it is the original 66 gauge which I don't trust, haven't upgraded it to an autometer yet.  I might buy one and check it directly from the engine bay.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 10:10:40 AM »
For sure check the oil pressure, Its not uncommon for a 347 to crack the block from the main bearing webs up into the cam bearings, then they spit the cam bearings out which then get tangled in the lifters, you will find it will have no oil pressure at idle and some at revs. They crack the web from the main bearing bolts which then fall into the sump

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 10:21:17 AM »
No oil pressure she's screwed .  Check the oil on the dip stick ,clean ,grey, black ,metal ? Oil filter will be full of crap also if it's stuffed the bottom end etc .

Offline shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 10:47:35 AM »
A 347 in a ford block don't like high revs, particular if its roller cam block. They pretty much break in 1/2 sometimes

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 01:03:42 PM »
Damn OK well I was going to do an oil pressure test then a compression test as I have both tools.

Offline BAC

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 06:44:04 PM »
A 347 in a ford block don't like high revs, particular if its roller cam block. They pretty much break in 1/2 sometimes

I may be off beam here, but why would you want a 3500 stall converter in a 347 stroker?
Cheers,
Brian

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 09:00:07 PM »
Good question Brian ,why a 3500 rpm hi stall  converter in a 347 ? I have a 4000 rpm hi stall converter in my 347  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:  :burnout: it helps to do that  :grin:

Offline BAC

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 09:14:37 PM »
:burnout: it helps to do that

You need help to make skidmarks?   :lmao:
Cheers,
Brian

Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 09:26:34 PM »
Skid marks ? No I don't leave skid marks  my washing machine does not allow that  :lmao:   Laying rubber is my thing  :burnout:

Offline flatchat

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 10:49:31 PM »
One more time ! stroking an OEM 302W to 347 is a bad combo!-- spirited driving will split the block
If you desire big cubes from a small block start with  an after market block such as Dart, Brodix, World products etc
Talking OEM -- a 302 W is a stroked 289 W -330 you're pushing it and after that good luck

Offline shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 08:49:56 AM »
One more time ! stroking an OEM 302W to 347 is a bad combo!-- spirited driving will split the block
If you desire big cubes from a small block start with  an after market block such as Dart, Brodix, World products etc
Talking OEM -- a 302 W is a stroked 289 W -330 you're pushing it and after that good luck

Agree, you need to be careful with them. So long as you don't rev them they are ok, you don't want to rev them much more than 6K if at all. The late model Roller blocks are the weakest they are very thin in the bores and main bearing webs are tiny, the best blocks are actually the early 289 blocks, they are by far the strongest, Glen 70 revs his just over 6k and has been doing that for years, but they need a good balance , main studs and a line bore. Revving them to 6500  they will often break the webs out and crack all the way to the cam bearing, you normally find the main bolts in the sump as they crack through the main bolt holes and the bolt just fall out. The best small block 8.2 deck engine is by far and away a 363, in an aftermarket block, these use a 3.4" stroke crank same as a 347 but a 4-1/8" bore, the bigger bore also un-shrouds the valves, and creates more air flow. The Dart blocks etc also have longer bore skirt to help stabilize the pistons on stroker engines , 4 bolt mains on the center 3, full thickness main webs. You can get Dart 302 block  to over 370 cube. The block may cost you $2800 but is money well spent. With a good 4340 rotating assembly you can lay into them as much as you want, and make some big number out of them as well. A 347 is ok for a quick cruiser but if you want drive them hard you need an aftermarket block.

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 09:38:30 AM »
So far all Ive had time to do is change the oil and cut open the oil filter. No metal, all looks normal.

I ran it again with new oil & filter - and the sound is very loud (but not getting any louder) - its a rattling/knocking sound (imagine you put a bolt in a can and shook it) and I've isolated it to the very back bottom of the engine - its either the flexplate/torque converter or the bottom end of the engine right at the back.

Choice now is do I remove sump and take a look or go to hassle of dropping entire transmission and seeing what is going on in there (my reluctance stems from the fact I'm doing this on jack stands with a trolley jack and all the nice AN connections are tight and leak free).

The fact that I just put in a new trans, new torque converter and new flexplate makes me hopeful this could be non engine related and is something I've done wrong in the installation. What could I have missed? Its a custom torque converter from TCE (Prostreet/pro race version - over $1000) - I supplied the engine specs - does the torque converter need to be balanced or anything to the flexplate? All i did was bolt on the new flexplate which is decent (28oz SCAT SFI - which matches the 3 month old 28oz ROMAC balancer) to the engine, bolted the torque converter to the flexplate (4 bolts accessible via the inspection window) and slipped in the trans input shaft. Am I forgetting something? All the bolts are ARP and snugged up tight. 

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 09:49:11 AM »
PART 2 - clearer sound from under the car


Offline GLENN 70

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 10:08:28 AM »
Make sure the converter  bolts are not hitting the inspection plate area .  Sorry I just can't tell from that . It's just to noisy to tell what's going on .

Offline mod66

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 11:13:18 AM »




Just thought of something - the green one is the new TC, the black the old. AS you can see the old one has threaded bolts coming out of it that slot into the flexplate then you do a nut up through the inspection window. With the new one it was supplied with those 4 black bolts you can see. I took those out and inserted them through the inspection window so that head snugs up against the flexplate, and it threads through the flexplate and through the TC. There is no nuts on the back of the new TC. Is that all correct? No drain holes either on new TC.

Offline shaunp

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 11:21:27 AM »
Does the noise change when its in gear?

Offline lukep6470

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Re: Need help! Think I've done some kind of damage - VIDEO of noise
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 12:25:07 PM »
OK so let's get a check list going:

Engine

Oil was clean
Oil Filter was clean
Engine seems to be running OK just noisy?
Is the engine running as smoothly as before.
How do the spark plugs look?
Is it possible the flexplate has come loose?
Can you possibly cause a clunk by hand cranking the engine (breaker bar on front crankshaft bolt)?

Transmission
Converter bolts are tight.
Does it still engage drive OK?
Does it change gears OK?
Does it shudder?

It is starting to look like disassemble time!!

 

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